OK, I ride, too……but on the OUTSIDE of the church building, not the INSIDE of the church building….
Here is how (and where) you are supposed to do it ![]()
Yea, that was me with the mad skillz ![]()
Posted by Ron on August 24, 2008
OK, I ride, too……but on the OUTSIDE of the church building, not the INSIDE of the church building….
Here is how (and where) you are supposed to do it ![]()
Yea, that was me with the mad skillz ![]()
Posted in Church, Seeker Sensititve/Church Growth Movement, Theology | Tagged: circus church, entertainment church, motorcycle, normative principle, regulative principle, seeker sensitive, seeker-sensitive church, sidecar | 1 Comment »
Posted by Ron on August 24, 2008
I saw a sign in someones yard today that declared: “Elect Jesus As Your Lord!” Now, I do not in any way shape or form infer anything ill about the character of the person who displayed this sign in their yard. I know nothing about the family that lives in the house that sits behind this sign, nor do I infer that nothing ‘good’ ever comes from such faddish displays of faith.
However, does not this sign, albeit without intention, portray a Jesus that seems a bit weak and needy? Is He awaiting a majority vote before He acts? Is the mighty Lion of Judah, is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords restrained by some political process? Is He not the absolute Lord of salvation, of the created order; is He not a mighty Redeemer? He elected me that all glory should go to Him; I do not elect Him that any glory should go to me.
I think of a sermon I listened to a number of months ago at a moderately sized community church wherein the well-intentioned pastor, after having two members of the church ride their large, loud motorcycles through the poorly ventilated church to park them in front of the stage to make some point, perfumed by carbon monoxide, about God’s timing, declared that Jesus is a ‘gentleman’ who would never force His will on anyone. Is that a biblical understanding of the sovereignty and power of Jesus?

I saw a tee shirt for sale at a large book retailer a few weeks ago. The front of the shirt was a ripoff of the Staples Easy Button. “Jesus” replaced the “Easy” on the button. Wasn’t easy for Jesus.
Posted in Church, Seeker Sensititve/Church Growth Movement, Theology | Tagged: Church, church growth, discernment, election, evangelism, gospel, Jesus, Jesus junk, marketing, salvation, seeker sensitive | 2 Comments »
Posted by Ron on August 23, 2008
John Piper speaking on discernment, the Lakeland ‘outpouring’ in specific, and testing ‘revival’ in general:”
“Discernment is not created in God’s people by brokenness, humility, reverence, and repentance. It is created by biblical truth and the application of truth by the power of the Holy Spirit to our hearts and minds. When that happens, then the brokenness, humility, reverence, and repentance will have the strong fiber of the full counsel of God in them. They will be profoundly Christian and not merely religious and emotional and psychological.
The common denominator of those who follow the Antichrist will not be “charismatic.” It will be, as Paul says, “they refused to love the truth.”
The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12)
Our test for every Lakeland that comes along should first be doctrinal and expositional. Is this awakening carried along by a “love for the truth” and a passion to hear the whole counsel of God proclaimed?”
Posted in Church, Discipleship, Quotes, Theology | Tagged: deception, discernment, John Piper, revival | No Comments »
Posted by Ron on August 21, 2008
(The following is something I put together for a friend of mine from work yesterday. I was asked to provide input to a program his church was developing regarding the identification of different stages of spiritual growth with an overarching goal to move people to deeper levels of discipleship.)
Sorry for any lack of clarity on my part for what follows. I tell you, it is a daunting task to identify stages of spiritual development and perhaps describe/prescribe how one moves from one stage to another, and I do not know how qualified I am to speak to these issues. I am humbled by so many men far more capable than myself.
That all being said, here goes…………
I think I will start at the end and move to the beginning. I think we need to identify what spiritual maturity, the overarching goal, looks like It is conformity to Christ as evidenced in the following, and I believe these are evidences we in Christ all can agree on. In no particular order and perhaps a bit repetitive at times, here are some of those aforementioned evidences:
While I have not provided any scripture to validate the above, I can do so, given a bit of time, if desired. I am admittedly writing from memory and though I feel comfortable with what the Bible states regarding spiritual maturity, I am not very good at memorization.
Having pointed out evidence of spiritual maturity, let’s go to the other end of the spectrum and ask ourselves what spiritual infancy/immaturity look like. It would be easy to simply state the opposite of the first list, but I will try to avoid, for the most part, that easy path
Again, in no particular order:
I have given two extremes. I think we all can identify with elements in both lists. I do not think everyone’s experience in growth to spiritual maturity is the same. Perhaps one could break the list into further categories…..infancy, toddler, etc…..but I am not so sure the Bible leads to that understanding of spiritual growth. Paul and the apostles speak in terms of maturity and immaturity. The Apostle Paul speaks of babes longing for and drinking milk and the more mature who are ready for a more substantive diet. Paul chastises those who are still drinking milk when they should move beyond the foundational elements of the faith. As an aside, I think about the church at Corinth. I think about how Paul did not call into question their salvation though he has grave concerns about that church.
Ultimately, the Spirit convicts us and leads us to righteousness. The Spirit leads us to exalt Christ. We have the spiritual disciplines of prayer and fasting. We have the body of Christ, the church, to relationally build us, mentor us, and correct us and encourage us. We have the 66 books of the Old and New Testament canon to build us, to train us in righteousness, to equip us for good works. We have under-shepherds, the pastor of the local church and the elders, to provide nurture and protection for the flock. We have the assurance that Christ will complete the work He began in us. We have the assurance that He works out all things for the good of those who love Him and are called according to His purpose.
However, we are also called to check ourselves, to see if our election, our salvation is ‘real.’ Are we bearing fruit? Some, like me, are slow out of the gate and take many wrong turns while others grow and bear fruit soon after the seed is planted, but ultimately, we in Christ will bear evidence of spiritual fruit. I fear, however, so many in the church are on the wide path and will miss the narrow gate.
In closing, many of the attributes of the first list may be found in those who do not know Christ. Merely possessing these attributes does not justify us. Many of the latter attributes are found in those who are truly redeemed by the penal substitutionary atoning work of Christ on the cross. They are no less justified by faith than those in Christ who possess all the attributes of the first list. Therein lies the power of grace through faith in Christ. We are not to fall into the erroneous idea that this life is a ’spiritual test’, that we are justified by our adherence to the ‘list.’ Adherence to the ‘list’ is an effect, not a cause. The cause is the grace and mercy of Christ as the Holy Spirit works within us and conforms us to His image.
Posted in Church, Discipleship, Theology | Tagged: Christ, Discipleship, forgiveness, grace, spiritual growth | 1 Comment »
Posted by Ron on July 17, 2008
One thing may lead to another. In a previous post , I have voiced my opposition to what I perceive to be unbiblical presentations of the tithe. In other posts , I have expressed an interest in learning more (which wouldn’t be hard given that I know next to nothing) about covenant and dispensational theology. It is interesting that recently, in the course of a couple of conversations, the two issues have collided, and I am still sorting through the fallout.
Here is the back-story: I participate in a small group at the church I have rather recently began attending. In this group, we read through various books on the faith (currently The Contagious Christian by Bill Hybels of Willow Creek Community Church), and in reading these books, we discuss and analyze them, looking for application, all through the lens of the reformed faith. One conversation went a bit off-topic to the subject of the tithe. Giving and tithing was the focus of the previous Sunday’s sermon, one that I missed because I was out of town. In the course of following the conversation, I perhaps was unconsciously telegraphing my discomfort with the direction of the dialog by my body language. Someone said it looked as if I were about to burst, so I voiced my opinion, I think/hope winsomely. I essentially mirrored the thoughts of my aforementioned post on tithing. In the course of the conversation, one that I must affirm was very gracious on the part of all parties involved, I found myself the sole voice for giving by grace rather than by law. In my questions about my understanding of the topic, the leader of the group, a man who I hold in utmost respect, suggested I talk with one of the associate pastors. I called and made an appointment.
I must say, I quite enjoyed the conversation with the associate pastor that followed and was edified by it, and we ended up meeting again to continue the conversation. At the closure of the conversation, we agreed to agreeably disagree on the subject of an obligatory tithe, but what I came away with from our conversations is that my questions and concerns and about the nature and extent of the interjection of the Law into the Church may be illuminated by a better understanding of Covenant Theology (CT) on my part. I will not go into the details of the conversation because, one, it would honestly take too long to put to the written word and I honestly probably spend a bit too much time with this blog thing, and two, I am still sifting slowly through my thoughts. I will, however, speak in some generalities and give voice to some questions and issues and thoughts to which I am seeking clarity.
Before I proceed, please forgive any misrepresentations on my part of CT. I am still in a very formative, embryonic stage of understanding and am quite open to correction. Too, I am beginning to better understand the value of a systemic, holistic approach to understanding the Bible, to understanding the relationship between Israel and the Church, to understanding the relationship between Law and Grace. I am thinking about how the former informs the latter, both the systematic approach informing the particulars and in the Law pointing to Grace. Also and without regard to my stance on the tithe, I believe in giving sacrificially, consistently, and regularly to one’s local church as well as to other groups and to individuals in need. I believe in doing so, when possible, anonymously, not informing the left hand as to what the right hand is doing. Within the life of a disciple of Christ, the nature of our treasure and the nature of our heart are reflective of one another. I also, at times (more often than I care to admit), fail miserably at being a faithful steward. In light of that, I humbly and in repentance thank God that I am not justified by my performance (I am not able to do so), but only by the redemptive work of Christ on the cross, and that He is, over time, sanctifying and conforming me to the image of my Redeemer, Christ Jesus.
One or two parenthetical thoughts before I continue: I do not in any way, shape, or form condemn, rebuke, shun, look down upon, castigate, or judge those who differ from me on the issue of the tithe or in regards to one’s stance on CT or DT with the caveat that I will steadfastly oppose the more egregiously legalistic presentations of the tithe wherein one is led, purposefully or not, to believe that God’s grace rests on our performance. I am also certainly not advocating a discontinuation of consistently giving a certain percentage of one’s income is one is presently doing so.
In light of all the aforementioned, here are some of those thoughts (perhaps sometimes a bit incoherent, errant, repetitive, shallow, and conflicted), questions (some rhetorical, others not), and concerns in a somewhat abbreviated fashion - perhaps fodder for later posts:
Thinking……..
‘Nuff said for now…could polish and refine the post a bit more, but I think I will now release it into the wild.
Posted in Church, Theology | Tagged: Church, Covenant theology, dispensational theology, ecclesiology, grace, law, tithe | 2 Comments »
Posted by Ron on July 4, 2008
It seems I have taken a somewhat contrarian path over the last few posts, and I am going to be quite repetitive on a few points with this one. That all being said, I cannot ignore my compulsion to speak and warn against what I feel is a dangerous strain of shallow ecclesiology; I am jealous over the church of Christ. I am jealous over the Gospel.
I recently ran across a post by a pastor and church planter from Canton, Georgia. As mentioned in an earlier post, I have listened to him speak as a guest pastor at a church I once attended. Also, I have listened to a sermon or two by this pastor. Too, I gather that his church was mentored to a degree by my former church.
His post revolves around the theft of a church trailer that contained things critical to the functioning of the pastor’s church. There is no denying that this theft is a horrible thing. Let me state some things clearly and perhaps digress and ramble a bit before I continue with my thoughts on the aforementioned post.
It is not my intent to hurt, but to warn. Also, I do not intend to infer the attitude exhibited by the referenced post is universal amongst the seeker sensitive church movement; it is just that his church is one of the more extreme manifestations, and this church is not without influence. That being said…..
The Gospel is simple, but it is not shallow. The call of much of the church growth movement, though, is to decry the deeper things of the faith. Over and over and over, I hear these pastors state that it is not their job to feed the flock, but to create self-feeders. To a small extent, there is an element of truth to that exhortation in that we are all to feast on the infallible, inspired, authoritative Word of God, the canon of scripture. However, I have heard enough of these calls to ’self-feed’ to know that there is more lurking behind this call than to encourage the flock to read the Bible for themselves. There is, first and foremost, a shallow, feel-good legalism. ‘Rather than go deeper, get out there and do things’ is the false dichotomy offered by more than a few of these seeker-sensitive church leaders. There is also an element of arrogant disdain these pastors hold for those who cry to their pastors for more food. I think, too, there is perhaps a laziness or inability on the part of many of these pastors to do the hard work and study required to preach the deeper things of Christ. Rather, there is a desire to be edgy, to be hip, to be relevant, to make the church more appealing to the world. The competition to the church is perceived to be Hollywood and Las Vegas. The thought is that the church needs to do the things Hollywood and Las Vegas does in terms of promoting the message of the Gospel. Much more could be said, but ultimately what this attitude represents is a contempt for the power of the Word faithfully exposited.
Alright, back to the pastors post. Again, the church trailer was stolen. Not good. Here are some quotes from the pastors blog regarding the theft:
A lovely image the pastor paints…..better that the pastor beats the mess out of the sinner before his crazy church of 1000 gets hold of the thief. Try to harmonize the pastor’s desire for vengeance with the Sermon on the Mount if you dare. The pastor’s attitude seems to be more aligned with radical Islam. I find irony, too, in this pastors often stated disdain for ‘Pharisees’ and ‘religious’ people found in his rhetoric.
Unlike much of the errant neo-liberalism and overly generous ‘orthodoxy’ of the Emergent Church, the seeker sensitives proclaim an orthodoxy in their mission and belief statements. Where they sometimes err is in their ecclesiology. They are orthodox in their beliefs, but they engage in heteropraxy, in errant practice. The bitter fruits are sometimes shallowness and arrogance. In the post by Gary Lamb, we find such fruit. What we find is a theft that transcends the stealing of property from a church. What we find stolen from the church of Christ, if such a thing were possible, is the blessedness of a humble, broken, and contrite heart. What we find stolen by this church, if such a thing were possible, is the sense that but for the grace, forgiveness, and mercy of Christ, you and I are condemned sinners, no less so than the trailer thief, fully deserving the wrath of God. Rather, we find a ‘lets go break the legs of sinners’ attitude. One has to ask this pastor and his church of 1000, which of you will cast the first stone that breaks the legs of the thief when you finally run him down?
In closure and to further cement my concern, here is a response from another blog to Gary’s post:
The heart grieves and mourns for a large swath of the American church. Alright, rant mode off………
Posted in Church, Discipleship, Seeker Sensititve/Church Growth Movement | Tagged: attraction church, heteropraxy, megachurch, Seeker Sensititve/Church Growth Movement, seeker sensitive, seeker-sensitive church | No Comments »
Posted by Ron on June 12, 2008
Yesterday, I listened to a sermon from a preacher of a church in Georgia, a church that could be defined as ‘seeker-sensitive,’ and the central theme of the message was stated as thus: Jesus Christ came to earth to do away with religion and to talk about and engage us in a relationship. I have heard this man speak at a church I once attended.
In keeping with the anti-religion theme of the sermon, a major portion of the sermon concerned itself with expounding against the error of legalism and our inability to please God by our adherence to ‘religious’ rules. In general principle, I could not agree more. The call against legalism was contrasted with the call to have a relationship with Jesus. The pastor stated that Jesus wants us to be His friend rather than a slave. I agree, but as an aside, I think of the apostle Paul describing himself as a bond servant to the Messiah. Semantics and definitions…..
Given the pastor’s admirable distaste of legalistic religion, it is interesting that he constantly reinforced the idea that this relationship with Jesus requires an initiating action on our part. The pastor’s flock was told that all we have to decide to enter in to a relationship with Him; it’s a free invitation. Jesus is just standing there waiting patiently for us to do something. He misquoted John 3:16 as “For God so loved the world that who ever believes, who ever decides, who ever makes the action, makes the decision for Him will have eternal life.” This is a verbatim quote from the sermon.
Romans 10:13 was misquoted as “Who ever calls, whoever makes a decision, on the Lord will be saved.”
Revelation 3:20 was misquoted as, and I paraphrase fairly closely, “that Jesus stands at the door of our heart and we must make a decision to open the door. Jesus is not going to kick in the door.” One, this is a verse that is so often and with good intention taken out of context and used evangelically. However, Christ is talking to the tepid church of Laodicea, not to the unregenerate as an invitation to a saving ‘relationship.’ Two, he intentionally misquoted scripture again.
However, in all the talk about entering into some rather ill-defined ‘relationship’ with Jesus, I do not recall hearing a word about despair over sin, about repentance. That is an absolutely breath-taking omission in presenting the Gospel. Perhaps such was inferred, was understood on the part of the pastor, but the biblical call to repent and believe was not verbally presented as the invitation to a relationship with Christ. To give credit where credit is perhaps due, he did mention towards the beginning of his sermon, thought, that he was quite a hellion before he became a Christian. I am not sure if I am to infer a call to repentance from that.
Among the pastor’s numerous personal anecdotes the he used to punctuate the sermon’s main points, there was a long rant about a legalistic ‘King James Only’ type church the pastor once attended. There was another church he spoke against in the course of the sermon, one that he planted and pastored (if I recall correctly), and after calling it by name, inferred it would be welcomed in hell. Following a bit later was a diatribe against sprinkling verses dunking.
While listening to the sermon, I had to remind myself that the pastor is a human being who apparently feels he has been hurt by individuals in the church. Sometimes, and sadly, such happens. There was some real, though veiled, bitterness exhibited in his descriptions of previous churches he had be involved with, and I have to temper my thoughts and words in regards to this man and his church. I have some empathy for him.
Towards the end of the sermon, he presented the ever so ubiquitous and unbiblical refrain of the seeker-sensitive church, the all too common proclamation of how it is not his job as pastor to feed the flock, that it is the flocks fault when they complain about not getting fed at church. His spin on those who want to ‘go deeper’ was that they want the pastor to ‘confuse them’. He stated such cannot handle practical teaching because they would have to do something. These seeker-sensitive preachers and entertainment-driven churches seem to all be reading from the same script. At the risk of sounding judgmental while perhaps speaking from the burden of my personal baggage, arrogance and disdain for the real ‘seekers’ seems to have stepped in to fill the gaping void left by the absence of overt legalism.
In the last few minutes of the sermon, Jesus was presented as a marriage fixer, a relationship healer, but overall, I actually heard very little about Christ the Redeemer.
In all the pastors admirable concern about legalism, what I picked up from the sermon, with all its calls to decide, with all the calls to perform an action both in initiating this relationship with Christ and the call to self-feed, was an ironic invitation to a works-driven legalism-lite. What I picked up, too, was a not-so-subtle ‘thank God I am/we are not like those Pharisees attitude. For brevities sake, I will refrain from further exploring this theme of minor league legalism. I think it could be stated with a high degree of confidence that all who are in Christ are, to some degree, recovering Pharisees.
What I was left with after listening to this sermon was an odd mix of muted anger at and profound sadness for the pastor. I felt only deep sadness for the flock as they clapped in approval. In all honesty, two or three years ago, if I were in that audience, I would have probably nodded my head in agreement and put my hands together along with the rest of the flock. In closure, what grieves me so very, very deeply is that this is probably not an uncommon sermon in many churches. With good intentions from well-meaning pastors, the evangel is reduced to an invitation to an ill-defined relationship with buddy Jesus, a relationship that carries some vague promises to fix our marriages, to fix our money, to fix our psychology. He just wants you to get out there and do something to fill the church seats so other people can meet Him just as you did. And you know what, despite the error being expounded from the stage, I believe some may actually have a saving encounter with Christ in such services, but I also fear many others will be filled with false assurance.
There are some preachers who will tell you salvation is free, that it’s easy, but it’s ultimately up to you to decide, to act, to initiate. I do not think it was without cost for Jesus. I do not think it will be without cost to me, but I have counted them as best I can. I did not initiate this relationship, my Messiah did. I do not think it will be easy, but I will follow Him knowing that I will stumble along the way. Jesus does look after and love His flock with tender care, but He never promised a ‘wonderful plan for your life’ as many would define wonderful. I know, too, that no one can snatch me from His grip.
Posted in Church, Seeker Sensititve/Church Growth Movement, Theology | Tagged: seeker sensitive, church growth, purpose driven, seeker-sensitive church, Seeker Sensititve/Church Growth Movement, purpose driven church, legalism, decisional regeneration, legalism lite, entertainment driven church | 2 Comments »
Posted by Ron on March 10, 2008
(7-02-08: As a sort of chronologically challenged preamble to this post and after reading a bit deeper into the blog, I have developed some reservations about what I perceive to be an alignment with with the Emergent strain of Christendom. I still agree with the following post, but again, I do not know if I can endorse the blog as a whole (not that it matters to anyone what I endorse), especially without further examination of the blog. Anywho, moving on……)
Stumbled on this post titled Burger King Christianity:
First, while I’m sure many people reading this understand what I mean when I say “attractional” church, but many might not, so briefly…
Attractional church is that model where we see the work of church and of evangelism as getting people to come. If we tink enough with the seats, if the music is rocking enough, if the kids program high energy enough, if the parking is plentiful and the coffee sweet, non-Christians will magically develop a desire to come to church. And when they come, Pastor can take a whack at ‘em.
For better or for worse… no, scratch that… for worse, this has become the dominant model in American evangelicalism.
Second- what’s wrong with it? If it gets people to church, why should we not do anything possible, short of something immoral or illegal to get people there?
Because the goal is not to pack a room, and it’s not the Pastor’s job to get your friends saved. And shame on any pastor whose model allows people to think it is.
This is the phrase that has been going through my head recently: What you win them with, you win them to. The problem with the attractional model is this: We bring people in on the basis of consumeristic impulses and when they fail to make the transition from church consumer to servant of all, we scratch our heads and wonder what’s wrong with them.
Posted in Church, Quotes, Seeker Sensititve/Church Growth Movement | Tagged: evangelical, church growth, seeker-sensitive church, heteropraxy | No Comments »
Posted by Ron on March 2, 2008
I do not come into the pulpit hoping that somebody
of his own free will, will return to Christ. My hope
lies in another quarter. I hope that my Master
will lay hold of some of them and say, “You are
mine and you shall be mine. I claim you for
myself”. My hope arises from the freeness of
grace not the freedom of the will. A poor haul of
fish will a gospel fisherman make if he takes
none but those who are eager to jump into the net.
Charles H. Spurgeon
Posted in Church, Quotes, Theology | Tagged: grace, Spurgeon | 1 Comment »